Petition for MW2

Bauhaus\DD/ wrote:

battlefield bad company 2 ftw

sounds like a good option to me...maybe i'll go reinstall my bf2 soon

i may join you in that bau

its some pretty good shit man. (bf2)..good enough graphics and it's not easy...alot of team play like Krypt said..seems like i cant ever shoot straight enough..vehicles to drive..helis to fly..it was the shit b4 cod4 came out..i never gave it enough playing time

yea i no its good..i played it a bit and got quite good..then cod4 came lol

Thanks for the feedback guys, and welcome back to a stable internet connection Kryp. Bout fecking time Bro!

Krypter wrote:

Out of interest has anyone looked into Americas Army 3, ARMAII, OPFP- Dragon Rising or Shattered Horizons ?

ARMA2 is a possibility, although it seems to be more realistic than anything else on the market. May prove a problem for a few of our members more interested in fun than an actual combat sim, although it could still be worth considering.

OPFP I was actually looking at getting for myself, never mind the squad. Although there is no PB and there is no dedicated servers, its that listen server bollox which stopped me buying it straight off the bat. Its basically the same package as MW2 unfortunately, check their forums to see how their players are enjoying the listen server set up.

AA3 I hadn't even considered but I will have a look at, alongside Shattered Horizons.

AA3 is super hard :/ Shattered horizion's wont be to everyone's taste i imagine ( with it being set in space and combat is in zero gravity ).

Will reinstall bf2 and 2142 to see how they are faring.

Atm decent multiplayer games seem to be thin on the ground, lets hope that changes soon

im buying borderlands saturday wich looks good. still play killing floor tho

I honestly think that it's gonna be great either way. I cant wait to get it personally.

I'm getting Borderlands, looks like it'll be fun, just a shame its only 4 player co-op :/

Moe wrote:

I honestly think that it's gonna be great either way. I cant wait to get it personally.

Note to self: In dire need of a facepalm smilie for times like this!

Then you are obviously oblivious to what is going on mate.

You understand that there is no decent anti-cheat, no dedicated servers, your going to be tied into Steam whether you like it or not and that a vast majority of PC gamers are actually boycotting this shite until it is fixed, don't you Moe?

Gasoline wrote:

im buying borderlands saturday wich looks good

On the subject of Borderlands, I seen the reviews and I was interested but 4 player co-op killed it for me. Which is a shame as I liked the look of it, graphics seemed quite interesting too. Although to make up for it I ordered the Deluxe edition of BF2 for a tenner last night, just to give her a run and see if its worth the effort.

im getting borderland to play with my brothers online so 4player co-op is no problem

Maybe its just me Bro but the important bit in any game is the Multiplayer bit. I prefer a target rich enviroment, with back up if its available.

Just used to larger servers and going player to player, rather than a small number of players Vs some bots, just doesn't do it for me mate.

Which is probably why you find me in the larger servers in KF.

§làiñê \ÐÐ/ wrote:

[
On the subject of Borderlands, I seen the reviews and I was interested but 4 player co-op killed it for me. Which is a shame as I liked the look of it, graphics seemed quite interesting too. Although to make up for it I ordered the Deluxe edition of BF2 for a tenner last night, just to give her a run and see if its worth the effort.

I best dig out my bf2/special forces stuff and get my sniper rifle dusted

I'm only interested in Borderlands for the backdrop, i love all that post-apocalyptic stuff, all in all it sounds like it's going to be similar to Fallout3/Stalker with a little Mad Max thrown in.

Krypter wrote:

I best dig out my bf2/special forces stuff and get my sniper rifle dusted

I can foresee many free head shots coming your way Kryp. And as a bonus I get to be a n00b again!

Krypter wrote:

I'm only interested in Borderlands for the backdrop, i love all that post-apocalyptic stuff, all in all it sounds like it's going to be similar to Fallout3/Stalker with a little Mad Max thrown in.

Definitely get the Fallout reference with Borderlands, post apocalyptic setting and same RPG play. As previously stated it was the -God forgive me- cartoony graphics of the game, that actually sparked my initial interest reminded me of some of the old 2000AD comics I used to read.

Anyway, on the subject of MW2, here is the latest opinion piece.

Quote :

Modern Warfare 2: the case for the dedicated server

Supporters of dedicated servers for FPS games claim that the current system is necessary to allow for a full gaming experience. Needless to say, the recent news that dedicated servers aren't being supported in the PC version of Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 hasn't exactly gone over well with a lot of the computer gaming community.

By Michael Thompson | Last updated October 29, 2009 8:08 AM CT


Last week, when Infinity Ward revealed it was dropping dedicated servers from the PC build of Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 in favor of a new matchmaking infrastructure called IWNET, it was like someone sucker-punched the PC gaming community. The reaction was both immediate and loud: forums erupted with angry posts, and a petition asking Infinity Ward to rethink its decision quickly surpassed 150,000 signatures.

So far, the developer seems to be ignoring the complaints of its PC audience. This isn't whining, however. Digging below the surface reveals that those who are asking Infinity Ward not to do away with the dedicated servers entirely are not simply scared of change. Instead, they want the PC gaming experience to be as enjoyable as possible for the entire community, something they say isn't possible without control of the servers.
Why this matters

So what's the big deal about the loss of dedicated servers? Quite a lot, actually, especially for hardcore PC gamers involved in competitive FPS leagues. "To lose dedicated servers means we lose control of what rules we can use in clan matches (each league has its own rules, perks, weapons, etc). These rules, more than likely, are run by mods, such as PAM, Openwarfare, or Pro-Mod," said Dave Wilks, the author of the petition and an administrator for Codleague. "No dedicated servers mean no mods... we wouldn't be able to upload mods to IWNET."

Of course, Infinity Ward has been quick to tout the advantages of using IWNET over dedicated servers. By utilizing "playlists" (pre-set game modes and types for public matches), players won't have to search for a game on a list of available servers. The system will also "put you in the game that will give you the smoothest gameplay possible without you having to manually find a server with the best ping."

The final advantage of this new system, according to the developer, is that it will use the Valve Anti-Cheat system in order to "control the quality of the game much more than ever before." According to the claims, IWNET will eliminate the need to worry about "joining a server full of aim-bots, wallhacks, or cheaters. Or relying on the server admin of the server to constantly be monitoring, banning, and policing it."

While it's true that dedicated servers can't really have someone monitoring the games on them 24/7, many of them utilize PunkBuster, an anti-cheat system for online multiplayer games. If you're a dedicated player who sticks to one server, it's also comforting to know those that care about the community around that server are working to keep the cheaters out; control rests in the hands of the players, not Activision.

Even if the IWNET system does work as Infinity Ward claims it will, it's easy to understand gamers' concern. "I don't know if [dedicated servers will be better] in general day to day play," admitted Wilks. "The only game I've played with matchmaking or similar is Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising, which also has a server browser so you can actually pick the server to go in.

"The thing with a matchmaking system [is that] you are reliant on the host not taking his bat home if he's getting pummeled in a game, and also on the host's internet connection being able to handle the amount of people in the server. With a [dedicated server], you usually have it located in a datacentre, with a decent connection, and so everyone connects to the server which means fairer play (no 0 pings)."
The PC gamer as whining loser

The concerns seem valid, despite what many people seemed to think when complaints started to surface last week. Even Jerry Holkins of Penny Arcade jumped on the bandwagon, naysaying the complaints as little more than pointless sound and fury from a community that is no longer a key audience.

"To read such lamentations, you'd get the impression that PC gamers still think they are the focus of the industry, when that hasn't been true for awhile," he wrote in a recent post. "Indeed, hardcore gamers in general—and the dedicated PC enthusiast, which is a subset—haven't been the object of their desire for some time."

Wilks, of course, disagrees. "No, I don't think [Holkins' opinion] is true," he said. "PC gamers know that they are the minority (15 percent in Call of Duty 4). PC Gamers haven't been primary audiences for a long time for most publishers or developers, although some still do develop only on PC."

Wilks claims the community's hope is that groups like Infinity Ward will keep dedicated servers running side-by-side with systems like IWNET. "All in all, IWNET adds a load of new features that the PC version of our games have never had before and allows us an infrastructure to continue to update and improve on the game post-launch," he said. "At the end of the day, all we are asking for is support to run the game how we, the paying customers, want to run the game after all the support Infinity Ward was given by the PC gaming community."

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like developers want to consider this option, based on Infinity Ward's reaction to the petition. Despite assurances by Robert Bowling that the development team would see and respond to the petition, the ensuing silence on the matter has been deafening. Wilks hasn't seen any official response from either Bowling or Infinity Ward since then, and Bowling himself never responded to Ars' request for an interview.

The lack of dedicated servers also means Activision Blizzard controls what mods, if any, will be allowed. You can't control what maps are running on the server, and fan-made maps offered for free may be a thing of the past, replaced by for-pay content, if this model catches on. This changes the relationship between the community and the publisher: you used to be able to buy a house and move in, but now you'll have to ask permission to paint the walls of your rental. Which, by the way, is more expensive. To show you just how far Infinity Ward has come since the last Call of Duty in terms of embracing the PC platform, take a look at an interview shot for the first Modern Warfare.



In just a few short years, we've gone from embracing the mod-making and PC gaming community, to treating them like children who can't be trusted with nice things.

How will the PC gaming community react to the game if Infinity Ward goes ahead with its current plans and doesn't support dedicated servers? "I can only speak for the guys I know about," Wilks said. "A poll on our site suggests that 75 percent have canceled preorders. As for what the community will do, well, if [Infinity Ward] stays with just IWNET, then we won't be supporting Modern Warfare 2. We will find other games to play."

Taking into account my 20years of gaming on pretty much every platform ever released i fail to see how the "listen" server model wins over dedicated servers, excluding the option of including the code to use dedicated servers seems detrimental unless ofc IW have other motives for forcing the issue, for instance DLC ( which tbh is something i'm totally against paying for being PRO-modder and a Scot )

Alot of the stuff i've read on this all reads roughly the same, they tout Steams VAC anti-cheat system as if its full-proof, however its been my experience that VAC gets less support and lets in way more cheats/hacks than Punkpuster. Not that PB is bulletproof, but i'd take that over vac everytime.

They also seem to think Steam games are harder to pirate, well that's also bollocks, in fact they are easier as you have less copy protection to contend with and the protection that is in place is easier to bypass according to info i can find on the matter.

From the responses i've read on various sites i get the impression that IW just can't be bothered to code in dedicated server support and are spraffing any old excuse, afterall MW2 is just another console port and they seem to think because "listen" servers work there, they should be fine for PC gamers while totally failing to notice the dynamics between consoles and PC MP gaming is very different.

just my 2p worth

frack IW!!! reinstalling bf2 tonight

Still waiting on my copy of BF2 turning up, it was posted fecking days ago but we are having a postal strike, so ..............................

IW spokesman has made a new announcement about MW2 that may interest you all though.

Well today is the day, so with that in mind.

the matchmaking feature isn't actually that bad. I still get very good ping every time i get on to a server, and gameplay is smooth. It has better weapons and alot more customization than cod4. Personally, I think it's worth the tradeoff.

Moe wrote:

the matchmaking feature isn't actually that bad. I still get very good ping every time i get on to a server, and gameplay is smooth. It has better weapons and alot more customization than cod4. Personally, I think it's worth the tradeoff.

How the hell can ANYONE think that the loss of organized competitive play in a stable and controlled environment is a good thing? the major gripe people have with the game is not the content, its the lack of support for what is a cornerstone of FPS online play, without the means to enforce server rules how do you plan on getting rid of the troublemakers and hackers? ( and before you mention VAC - dont bother, its as much use as brick is to a drowning man ) or arrange any kind of decent league, yes there are some facilities there but they are extremely limited compared to the traditional layout.

The only people i can see that are not bothered by this turn of events are console jockeys, who ( lets face it) are the ones we have to thank for the sorry state gaming is in today anyways, so by all means enjoy the game but if you think its worth the tradeoff, your a fool.

Congratulations on your contribution to the death of decent, organized competitive play.

the console kids will lose interest in it, and no pc community foundation....frack that game

cod4 is fine for me for now

Well the whole Steam/Vac thing worked out well then!

The pirate copies are already on Torrents and the hax are already up and running in the game.



With no way to get rid of them (i.e. Server Admins, PB, etc.) its sure to be a fun enjoyable experience for all, so you have fun Moe.

Had to edit this as IW/Activision have deemed in their infinite wisdom that you cannot see hacks in their new game, on the day of release, nor to be aware that there is feck all you can do about them.

Well you may silence Youtube IW but you won't silence this consumer. I have a screen shot for your perusal gentlemen, in which you will see the same bounding boxes that come as part of the ESP hack that we have always had to deal with in the COD series. Good job IW, particularly like how we can do sweet feck all about the hackers now. Nice touch!

HACKED!!!!! lol

Awesome anti-hack work from IW and Vac, another knife in the backs of PC gamers.
Just looked on youtube for modern warfare 2 hacks and there's loads of vids still viewable so it looks like someones having problems keeping them off lets hope the PC game mags give Activision/IW what they deserve.

Seems the Petition and boycott groups worked well then, least they might of if the feckers in them (including those who started them) actually stuck to their guns.

The Steam Group is full of plebs playing it, as is the Xfire Group.

I guess taking a stand against something means different things to different folks eh. Congratulations guys, you help nail the coffin shut on competitive PC gaming and to your shame your actually PC gamers.

Oh and the good news just keeps coming, check it out.

Quote :

READ THIS SHOCKING ARTICLE !!! IN SHORT THEY WANT US TO PAY AGAIN TO PLAY MP ONLINE !!! IW.NET IS ONLY THE BEGINING !!! ILL TRANSLATE !!!

Posted here http://www.gamer.nl/doc/52335/Activisio

Activision gaat een online betaalmodel introduceren voor zijn grootste franchise, waaronder Call of Duty. Dit meldde Thomas Tippl, financieel manager bij Activision Blizzard, in een interview met website IGN tijdens het BMO Capital Markets Conference in New York.
Gamer.nl

Dit nieuwe model zou mogelijk kunnen betekenen dat mensen extra moeten betalen om games van Activision online te moeten spelen. Tippl meldde in het interview dat, hoewel het lastig is om het online business-model van World of Warcraft naar andere franchise van de uitgever te vertalen, het zeker verwacht kan worden dat dit gaat gebeuren. De uitgever gaat hiervoor de kennis die door de jaren heen is opgedaan door hun eigen onlineteam en dat van Blizzard combineren.

Marktonderzoek

Volgens Tippl hebben fans aangegeven dat er vraag is naar extra mogelijkheden, content en innovatie die ze momenteel nog missen en zijn ze zelfs bereid hiervoor te betalen. Mogelijk komt deze informatie uit een marktonderzoek dat Activision afgelopen juni heeft gehouden.

Wanneer het nieuwe model van start moet gaan en wat het precies gaat inhouden, is nog niet bekend.

Translation: Google

Activision will introduce an online payment model for its largest franchise, including Call of Duty. This was announced by Thomas Tipple, financial manager at Activision Blizzard, in an interview with IGN web site during the BMO Capital Markets Conference in New York.
Gamer.nl

This new model could potentially mean that people should pay extra for Activision games to play online. Tipple reported in the interview that, although it is difficult for the online business model for World of Warcraft franchise to another publisher of the translation, it certainly can be expected that this will happen. The publisher is this knowledge that over the years gained through their own online team and that of Blizzard combine.

Market research

According Tipple fans have indicated that demand for additional features, content and innovation that they are still missing and are even willing to pay. This information may come from a market that Activision has taken over in June.

When the new model to start and what exactly is the content is not yet known.

Uit een recent marketingonderzoek van Activision blijkt dat het bedrijf nadenkt om van speciale onlinefunctionaliteiten in de Call of Duty-serie een betaalde dienst te maken.

Een deel van de online-ervaring zou dan tegen betaling speelbaar zijn, zoals speciale skins, geavanceerde stat-tracking, spelmodi, eerdere toegang tot beta's en ondersteuning van het competitief spelen. Het is niet geheel duidelijk of het onderzoek hint naar het volledig wegnemen van het gratis online element, of dat het slechts om delen gaat.

Vervolgen op hit-franchises
Eerder al gaf Activision aan dat het zich niet al te veel gaat richten op nieuwe games, maar vooral op bestaande franchises. Het bedrijf heeft een strategie ontwikkeld waarin het in rap tempo vervolgen op succesvolle series uitbrengt, zoals bij Guitar Hero en Call of Duty, en binnen deze franchises naar nieuwe manieren zoekt om de inkomsten te vergroten. Het filosoferen over betaalbare onlinefunctionaliteiten in een bestaande franchise past dan ook binnen deze strategie.

Translation: Google

A recent marketing study by Activision shows that thinking about the business of special online functionality in the Call of Duty series to a paid service.

Part of the online experience would be playable fee, such as special skins, advanced stat tracking, game modes, early access to beta programs and supporting the competitive games. It is not entirely clear whether the study hint to the full removal of the free online component, or merely going to share.

Continue to hit franchises

Earlier, Activision did that it is not already too much focus on new games, but mainly on existing franchises. The company has developed a strategy which rapidly proceed the successful series is delivered, such as Guitar Hero and Call of Duty, and within these franchises looking for new ways to increase revenue. Philosophizing about affordable online functionality in an existing franchise fits within this strategy.

Would seem those who claimed (myself included) it would end up with DLC and cost you even more money were actually right.

I'll take bets now that dedicated server support/admin controls will be an optional extra that's included in this frakfest.

Look forward to seeing how all the 360 fanboys take this ( though tbh they're all probably dumb enough to pay more to play what they should be getting for free anyway)